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	<title>Comments on: Why debating atheists online is a fruitless pursuit</title>
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		<title>By: Steve Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-8585</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2011 08:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-8585</guid>
		<description>Hi Steve,

This is a kind of cross-post from your response to my article: http://www.tilledsoil.org/2011/03/30/is-apologetic-posting-on-internet-sites-a-waste-of-time/

I think the key here is discernment. One could waste tons of time going into the &#039;wolf&#039;s den&#039; and posting, so to speak. I think the situation I linked to is unusual (Richard Morgan&#039;s conversion at Dawkin&#039;s web forum), but should be kept in mind.

I tend to post more in general media stories that venture into areas of religion and ethics, or bad science. I&#039;m not even trying so much to convert the people who come and argue and poke fun of me, as I am looking to present an intelligent, level-headed, and hopefully respectful Christian dialog into the secular stream for the thousands or millions of 3rd party people to the conversation. I especially try to correct false views of what Christianity teaches, which are thick in most secular articles that touch on the area.

And, as you pointed to in your last response above, I&#039;m pretty convinced that Christians are part of the Holy Spirit&#039;s means of working in the lives of non-believers. The Holy Spirit ultimately converts the heart, but I think, often does that through the chipping away of interactions with Christians. My goal is never to convert (as I can&#039;t do that anyway), but to, as Greg Koukl often says, put a stone in their shoe... ie: give them something to ponder or trouble them about their current views. -Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve,</p>
<p>This is a kind of cross-post from your response to my article: <a href="http://www.tilledsoil.org/2011/03/30/is-apologetic-posting-on-internet-sites-a-waste-of-time/" rel="nofollow">http://www.tilledsoil.org/2011/03/30/is-apologetic-posting-on-internet-sites-a-waste-of-time/</a></p>
<p>I think the key here is discernment. One could waste tons of time going into the &#8216;wolf&#8217;s den&#8217; and posting, so to speak. I think the situation I linked to is unusual (Richard Morgan&#8217;s conversion at Dawkin&#8217;s web forum), but should be kept in mind.</p>
<p>I tend to post more in general media stories that venture into areas of religion and ethics, or bad science. I&#8217;m not even trying so much to convert the people who come and argue and poke fun of me, as I am looking to present an intelligent, level-headed, and hopefully respectful Christian dialog into the secular stream for the thousands or millions of 3rd party people to the conversation. I especially try to correct false views of what Christianity teaches, which are thick in most secular articles that touch on the area.</p>
<p>And, as you pointed to in your last response above, I&#8217;m pretty convinced that Christians are part of the Holy Spirit&#8217;s means of working in the lives of non-believers. The Holy Spirit ultimately converts the heart, but I think, often does that through the chipping away of interactions with Christians. My goal is never to convert (as I can&#8217;t do that anyway), but to, as Greg Koukl often says, put a stone in their shoe&#8230; ie: give them something to ponder or trouble them about their current views. -Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Anoop Gupta</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-8211</link>
		<dc:creator>Anoop Gupta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 04:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-8211</guid>
		<description>I must admit I&#039;ve spent a lot more time debating atheists online than I&#039;d care to measure. I debate them because, as M B Andrews pointed out above (March 17, 2010 at 3:15 pm), the internet is increasingly where we live, and it is where atheists gather. It is also fast becoming the primary mission field for many.    

If we agree that every journey to &#039;belief&#039; begins with &#039;disbelief&#039; we must agree that every theist begins as an atheist. Thus, every atheist, online or otherwise, is a spiritual journeyman looking for answers. I&#039;ve often asked myself why would an atheist bother arguing against God online if they weren&#039;t fundamentally challenged by Him?           

Perhaps our insecurity comes from our expectation of a favourable response while we wait. If we believe that the Gospel has the eternal transforming power claimed in Scripture, then the fruits of our individual efforts in proclaiming Christ need not be harvested ourselves. In other words, the words we type today may bear fruit in another&#039;s life at another time whether or not we are there to witness it.   
 
The fact is, we don&#039;t know when the Holy Spirit begins its work in the heart of another. It may work through some innocuous and quickly forgotten turn of phrase, some line of reasoning, in our avoidance of &lt;i&gt;ad hominems&lt;/i&gt; or intellectually dishonest arguments, or in the way we graciously bid an antagonist farewell. The miraculous transformation that brings joy and warmth into an unbelievers life may even take place because of the very fact of our interaction, perhaps months or even years afterwards. 

It may, then, be more a matter of faithfulness than fruitfulness. If we agree that faith is a commitment that God exists, and that He&#039;ll be there for us as He has been there for others in the past, and will be there for others in future, then we needn&#039;t wonder whether our engagement with those that just seem to want to shame and ridicule is fruitful or not, as it always will be. I&#039;d go further - if we engage in apologetic debate reasonably, lovingly, carefully, and in complete faith in the power of the Holy Spirit, then the opportunity to debate itself is fruit of the spirit, whatever the outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must admit I&#8217;ve spent a lot more time debating atheists online than I&#8217;d care to measure. I debate them because, as M B Andrews pointed out above (March 17, 2010 at 3:15 pm), the internet is increasingly where we live, and it is where atheists gather. It is also fast becoming the primary mission field for many.    </p>
<p>If we agree that every journey to &#8216;belief&#8217; begins with &#8216;disbelief&#8217; we must agree that every theist begins as an atheist. Thus, every atheist, online or otherwise, is a spiritual journeyman looking for answers. I&#8217;ve often asked myself why would an atheist bother arguing against God online if they weren&#8217;t fundamentally challenged by Him?           </p>
<p>Perhaps our insecurity comes from our expectation of a favourable response while we wait. If we believe that the Gospel has the eternal transforming power claimed in Scripture, then the fruits of our individual efforts in proclaiming Christ need not be harvested ourselves. In other words, the words we type today may bear fruit in another&#8217;s life at another time whether or not we are there to witness it.   </p>
<p>The fact is, we don&#8217;t know when the Holy Spirit begins its work in the heart of another. It may work through some innocuous and quickly forgotten turn of phrase, some line of reasoning, in our avoidance of <i>ad hominems</i> or intellectually dishonest arguments, or in the way we graciously bid an antagonist farewell. The miraculous transformation that brings joy and warmth into an unbelievers life may even take place because of the very fact of our interaction, perhaps months or even years afterwards. </p>
<p>It may, then, be more a matter of faithfulness than fruitfulness. If we agree that faith is a commitment that God exists, and that He&#8217;ll be there for us as He has been there for others in the past, and will be there for others in future, then we needn&#8217;t wonder whether our engagement with those that just seem to want to shame and ridicule is fruitful or not, as it always will be. I&#8217;d go further &#8211; if we engage in apologetic debate reasonably, lovingly, carefully, and in complete faith in the power of the Holy Spirit, then the opportunity to debate itself is fruit of the spirit, whatever the outcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Kryger</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-6929</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Kryger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 01:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-6929</guid>
		<description>I think one of the reasons is that atheists don&#039;t have a formal place to gather together as a collective (for example, as Christians gather in a church). The internet has become the &#039;meeting place&#039; for some atheists, and so some are much more active in this space. Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the reasons is that atheists don&#8217;t have a formal place to gather together as a collective (for example, as Christians gather in a church). The internet has become the &#8216;meeting place&#8217; for some atheists, and so some are much more active in this space. Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Estan Beedell</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-6928</link>
		<dc:creator>Estan Beedell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 00:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-6928</guid>
		<description>Why is it that you think there&#039;s such an overabundance of atheists keen to debate, or as you put it &quot;ridicule&quot;, beliefs on the internet. Maybe because actually questioning and examining beliefs leads to atheism? Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that you think there&#8217;s such an overabundance of atheists keen to debate, or as you put it &#8220;ridicule&#8221;, beliefs on the internet. Maybe because actually questioning and examining beliefs leads to atheism? Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Eight things I&#8217;ve learned from arguing with atheists online and why I (mostly) can&#8217;t be bothered anymore » St. Eutychus</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-3238</link>
		<dc:creator>Eight things I&#8217;ve learned from arguing with atheists online and why I (mostly) can&#8217;t be bothered anymore » St. Eutychus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 02:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-3238</guid>
		<description>[...] Why debating atheists online is a fruitless pursuit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why debating atheists online is a fruitless pursuit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-3150</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 07:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-3150</guid>
		<description>They make some good points over at Thinkers podium Steve!

Wayne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They make some good points over at Thinkers podium Steve!</p>
<p>Wayne</p>
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		<title>By: Comment thread besmirched &#171; Thinkers&#39; Podium</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-3148</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment thread besmirched &#171; Thinkers&#39; Podium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 06:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-3148</guid>
		<description>[...] (Steve Kryger, 2010) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Steve Kryger, 2010) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-2995</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 02:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-2995</guid>
		<description>It reminds me of these two proverbs:

Pr 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Pr 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It reminds me of these two proverbs:</p>
<p>Pr 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.</p>
<p>Pr 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Kryger</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Kryger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>Matt and Nathan, this is why I love the blog format - it is so useful to hear different perspectives and be challenged in our conclusions. I&#039;m encouraged to hear how and why you are both using the web to engage, and to be far more fruitful than I have been! Thanks for sharing this encouragement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt and Nathan, this is why I love the blog format &#8211; it is so useful to hear different perspectives and be challenged in our conclusions. I&#8217;m encouraged to hear how and why you are both using the web to engage, and to be far more fruitful than I have been! Thanks for sharing this encouragement.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.communicatejesus.com/2010/03/why-debating-atheists-online-is-a-fruitless-pursuit/comment-page-1/#comment-2909</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.communicatejesus.com/?p=4726#comment-2909</guid>
		<description>Hi Steve, 

The reason I devote some of my spare time to doing just this is so that people who arrive on objectionable posts on atheist blogs via genuine google searches asking questions need to see the gospel proclaimed at that time. 

I&#039;m happy to discuss things with atheists so long as I can promote Jesus on a platform to people who are at the very least thinking about the question of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve, </p>
<p>The reason I devote some of my spare time to doing just this is so that people who arrive on objectionable posts on atheist blogs via genuine google searches asking questions need to see the gospel proclaimed at that time. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy to discuss things with atheists so long as I can promote Jesus on a platform to people who are at the very least thinking about the question of God.</p>
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